Thursday, November 17, 2011

Photo Number 716

This is a CdV from the Antique Shop in Detroit Lakes Minnesota.
Kari 1878 CdV DL
This lady looks awfully tiny to me..but her hands look very large. I wonder what her bonnet with the long ribbons is called? 
Kari 1878 Back DL Antiques
This is the back of the photograph.  Note the 8 with an x under it and then a 78.  I think this may mean that the photograph was taken in August of 1878.

Kari 1878 Back DL Antiques
Any help with a translation is appreciated.
Kari Knudsdatter ( Knud's daughter)   Llablison ( Slatten)
Nanston Norge  ( Nanston Norway)

The photographer was A. Havee  Kristiania which is now Oslo.

Thanks for stopping by, do come again:)
Update from Anonymous:
The photographer is likely this one, although the spelling is slightly different:

http://bit.ly/sxElwI

It says that Auguste Havée was born and trained (with "the famous Professor M. A. Gaudin", Paris) in France. He practiced at the Norwegian west coast in 1859 (Stavanger, Haugesund, Bergen), but moved to Christiania before 1865. He died 1880, which probably means that this photo is from between 1865 and 1880.

The spelling "Kristiania" rather that "Christiania" could indicate that the photo is from after 1877.

Knudsdatter = daughter of Knud

I read the last name as Slattum. There are two Slattum in Norway, both just north of Oslo:
Slattum, Nittedal
Slattum, Nannestad

One might read the lower left text as "Nanstad" (with much good will), which could mean Nannestad? 

Searching Norwegian census data (http://bit.ly/uSLQKO), I found the following inhabitants at the farm Slattum in Nannestad, in 1865:
Jens Hovals., husband, farmer
Kari Knudsd., wife
Dortea, daughter
Berte Marie, daughter

Kari was 62 in 1865, so born approx. 1803.

See also http://bit.ly/tvxIgv (which was instrumental in finding the above census record). Kari Knutsdatter, born 1803, death 1887.

"Hovals." above should probably be "Hovelsen".



Update from Dr Jeff:


Nannestad is often pronounced Nann'stad and that's probably it's spelled incorrectly.

Since she was born 1803, she also experienced the great Norwegian famine of 1809. That may explain the seemingly tiny body.



Update from Ancestry:
Her Father was Knut Larsen, Haga Holter Bidsler  born 1765
Her Mother was Berte Olsdatter, Holter  born in 1762
She married Jens Hovelsen, Slattumeie who was born in 1786



Married on November 01 1832 in Holter kirke, Nannestad
Children: Dortea Jensdatter, Slattum November 05 1831 and Berte Marie Jensdatter, Slattum September 28 1840


Update: 
I located Kari's Great Great Grandson Tore in Canada.  I will be mailing the photo soon:) 


Mailed to Tore on November 21, 2011:)
This photo went Full Circle 43  on January 30, 2012 

11 comments:

  1. The photographer is likely this one, although the spelling is slightly different:

    http://bit.ly/sxElwI

    It says that Auguste Havée was born and trained (with "the famous Professor M. A. Gaudin", Paris) in France. He practiced at the Norwegian west coast in 1859 (Stavanger, Haugesund, Bergen), but moved to Christiania before 1865. Hi died 1880, which probably means that this photo is from between 1865 and 1880.

    The spelling "Kristiania" rather that "Christiania" could indicate that the photo is from after 1877.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Knudsdatter = daughter of Knud

    I read the last name as Slattum. There are two Slattum in Norway, both just north of Oslo:
    Slattum, Nittedal
    Slattum, Nannestad

    One might read the lower left text as "Nanstad" (with much good will), which could mean Nannestad?

    Searching Norwegian census data (http://bit.ly/uSLQKO), I found the following inhabitants at the farm Slattum in Nannestad, in 1865:
    Jens Hovals., husband, farmer
    Kari Knudsd., wife
    Dortea, daughter
    Berte Marie, daughter

    Kari was 62 in 1865, so born approx. 1803.

    See also http://bit.ly/tvxIgv (which was instrumental in finding the above census record). Kari Knutsdatter, born 1803, death 1887.

    "Hovals." above should probably be "Hovelsen".

    ReplyDelete
  3. I totally agree with my anonymous fellows.
    Nannestad is often pronounced Nann'stad and that's probably it's spelled incorrectly.

    Since she was born 1803, she also experienced the great Norwegian famine of 1809. That may explain the seemingly tiny body.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When it comes to height - the average for British men in abt 1860 was 5 ft 5 (1,66 m) and had increased to 5 ft 9 (1.76m) by about 1975. Norwegians were slightly taller. Of course periods of famine would matter, and generally they were smaller in the 17th and 18th Century than these days. http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~hatton/Tim_height_paper.pdf -

      Babos

      Delete
  4. Wow. Thanks Anonymous!

    I guess her family had members that came to the USA - I find the naming convention to be difficult to follow, I understand the "Kari Knudsdatter" means Kari, Knuds' daughter, but if she had family members that came to the US, what last would they have used?

    Can I reasonably assume perhaps one of the grandchild, like Ivar Olaf Fevik might of came to the US?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I emailed the owner of that family tree at ancestry..we will see what happens next:)

    ReplyDelete
  6. I located Kari's Great Great Grandson Tore in Canada and I will be mailing the photograph to him! :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. This is all great stuff. So much information. Her hands have seen a lot of work haven't they? They look like a man's hands. She must have such a story to tell.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Having Norwegian inlaws, this is interesting to me. I recently learned that within the same family, different last names could have been used. My mother in law's grandfather used Conradson in the US, but in Norway used one of two different names. His one brother used one last name and another brother used a third one, so our Norwegian relatives are very difficult to trace! Norwegians must be familiar with this practice but it is sure confusing to me.

    ReplyDelete
  9. About Norwegian naming conventions (from my understanding&recollection, so probably not 100% correct, but fairly, I should think):

    In the old norse days (~1000 years ago), people got their surname from their father. If their father was named Knud, the son got the surname Knudson (or Knudsson or Knudsen), the daugther Knudsdatter. This is still practiced at Iceland today.

    At some time one started adding the name of the farm where one lived. If you lived at the farm Slattum, you added Slattum to your name. If you moved to another farm, you changed your name. Before 1900, this was usually the case.

    As urbanization increased (~100 years ago), an increasing number of people did not live at farms, and the practice became to inherit the father's surname. (This is probably also influenced by continental habits.)

    This means that today, most Norwegians either have a name that ends with -sen (or -son) like Olsen (son of Ole), Hansen (son of Hans), etc., or a name of a farm (like Slattum). When people have a "farm name", it is in many cases fairly easy to find out where the name originates from.

    Those rather few who has another type of surname (like the present Norwegian prime minister), are ancestors of immigrants (but the immigration could be houndred of years back).

    ReplyDelete
  10. Thank you C...
    I am glad you found me so we could identify her from my database at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bjerkek&id=I00382

    I look forward to receiving the picture and will share the story with the people in the municipality Nannestad in Norway.

    The history of this picture is just beginning - because it would be interesting to find out how it ended up in Minnesota - since none of her direct descendants emigrated there. An open possibility: Her husband had a son, Kristoffer (or Christopher, if you will) Jensen born at Bjerkek (Bjercheg) in 1826 who emigrated with his wife Anne Karine Trondsdatter and 5 children; August b 1856,Hans Martin b 1859, Thorvald b 1862 and Andrine b 1864. I believe they may have been called Berget in the US.
    An outside chance: Her son-in-law Otto Larsen Bjerke in Ullensaker had a sister, Dorthea Larsdatter Bjerke who emigrated with her husband Johan Martin Svendsen Schou ca. 1866 with 3 children: Clara Charlotte b 1861, Alma Mathilde b 1963 and Svend Robert b 1865, all born in Ullensaker in Norway. This couple had 4 children in the US: Jennie, Louis, Carl and Marie, all called Schow then on a picture I once saw.
    (Sorry for listing all the names;-)
    Cheers,
    Tore

    ReplyDelete

Hi, Thanks for the comments, your input on these old photos is appreciated! I don't do awards, award me a comment! English only please! This is a word verification free blog. I can no longer accept anonymous comments.
Connie